Penninx il pennivendolo


Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:03 am
Wim Penninx ERS means that they come from a scientic publication. The one of Francalacci is indicated on the bottom of the tree-pages. The ERS17-range is from https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14761-7 . I still hope that yfull will add the documentation on their site. Corey Bregman, it is interesting to see that your Jewish branch (http://jewishdna.net/AB-008.html or http://jewishdna.net/AB-009.html) has now at least two members in your branch with NGS tests, so we finally have a time estimate of this fairly large branch (no 15 in size of the Ashk. branches). Interesting to see that the Sardinians are of the same recent timeframe.Gestire

The genetic variation in the R1a clade among the Ashkenazi Levites’ Y…
NATURE.COM


Gioiello Tognoni Vadim Urasin, perhaps you should put in the YFull tree also Sardinian sample Francalacci 2015 136 (Beyond these 137 and 138), which seems at the E-Y21109* level, deeply rooted in Italy and Western Europe. Difficult to think that these samples came recently from Near East.

Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:43 pm
Corey BregmanCorey There may be two Sardinian ERS samples in a further terminal group beyond Y-21109? Is E-Y21109* downstream of M123 and M34 whereas E-Y21116 looks on a different branch downstream of E-PF1974, with E-PF1962 being the most recent common branch between the two ~18900 years ago?



Gioiello Tognoni Of course two Sardinian samples [ERS256030 and ERS256031 = Francalacci 2015 137 and 138] seem linked to you [YF13011] with a tMRCA only 1000ybp as to YFull. The sample I spoke above, which should get the number ERS256029, isn't in the tree, but there are the samples ERS256027 and ERS256028 = Francalacci 2015 134 and 135. Why it isn't in the tree? Because the sample isn't easily classifiable, being the samples tested at low coverage, and 136 is linked to 137 (with which it hasn't anything to do, because two SNPs seem in common, but that is due just to te low coverage of the test).
Without going deeply in the question, I wanted to say that the pretension that Mr Penninx and many others have to adfirm that these samples came from Near East, and recently, thus Jews belonging to these hgs are of Near Eastern origin, isn't demonstrated, and may have happened also the other way around. Also your sample is only a VCF file, thus unsufficiently understandable, and that FTDNA doesn't release the .BAM file, for all what I said above, perhaps isn't by chance.

Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:14 am
Wim Penninx I never made statements on "all Jewish lines came from the Near East". It is a mixture. From several we know they came from the Near East, from several we know the came from the Near East and passed Iberia. From several we know they became Jewish in Europe. For many we don't know. Because of the large mixtures between 1000 BC-0 BC in Near East and in the Meditterenean, we will not be able to determine it for many lines. This line is an interesting element in this puzzle.

Not all free formatted text on my website are up-to-date. Thanks for the suggestion to update it.

Gioiello Tognoni Wim Penninx, of course I agree with what you say now, and certainly we may thank YFull because it contributed a lot for searching the truth with its tools put at our disposal. You know that this is a long standing research from myself, just from whem many people found in my autosome a huge presence of Ashkenazi traits and many proposed me a Bar Mitzvah, but I said that my ancestors are from Tuscany al least from documented people from 1300 and perhaps someone may hypothesize that my mt or Y may have an origin from somewhere else from Tuscany (of course I don't believe with that), but not my autosome. Perhaps the other way around happened. We were on 2008, on DNAforums, and that was my second banishment. Now, if Davidski says that Ashkenazim are 51% from Tuscany, perhaps there is something true in that... and of course also many mt or Y lines may have come from here and not from Near East.

Return to E Haplogroup (Y-DNA)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron