Not King David, perhaps Theuderic or Paolo from Tuscany


Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:36 pm
Re: Scacco matto in tre mosse
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:25 pm
by Gioiello
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
There is new French origin tester on the Yfull tree, L52* brother branch of L151. This is good news for your theory.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L52/


I know him from many years and have exchanged with him hundreds of letters, and tens or hundreds of posts also here. He is Paolo Amerighi from Siena, who thought being a descendant of "King David" (look at my posts here) and he has been tested through my suggestions. He is a partial R-P310, and I wrote many times to the same YFull that it was not right that he were classified as L151, being he negative just for that SNP. I am seeing now that they chose a SNP which is positive for him. He belongs to one of the noblest families from Siena, and he put France as his fatherland because he thinks to descend from Theuderic of Narbonne, I wrote that, given his noble origin, and that he is a partial R-P310 (with 4 SNPs positive, 3 negative and 5 no calls as to his Big Y, but I have to look at this last tree of YFull), found so far only in aDNA in Germany, that a German origin is likable, but that he could be also a Tuscan introgressed in these last thousand years inTuscany, and this would be a great news for me indeed.
P.S. I am seeing that YFull was able to read also the 5 no calls of Big Y. Great!

Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:46 pm
Sample ID
HG
16492547
17844018
16751825
6604911
19418178
5007935
17697807
17589518
6447588

REFSEQ

T
C
A
G
C
A
C
T
A

YF13201
R-L52*
C
T
G
N
N
N
N
T
N

Unfortunately the 5 no calls remain no calls. Only my Full Genome tested all:


YF02873
R-FGC24408
C
T
G
A
T
C
T
C
C

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:51 am
Gioiello wrote:Re: Scacco matto in tre mosse
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:25 pm
by Gioiello
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
There is new French origin tester on the Yfull tree, L52* brother branch of L151. This is good news for your theory.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L52/


I know him from many years and have exchanged with him hundreds of letters, and tens or hundreds of posts also here. He is Paolo Amerighi from Siena, who thought being a descendant of "King David" (look at my posts here) and he has been tested through my suggestions. He is a partial R-P310, and I wrote many times to the same YFull that it was not right that he were classified as L151, being he negative just for that SNP. I am seeing now that they chose a SNP which is positive for him. He belongs to one of the noblest families from Siena, and he put France as his fatherland because he thinks to descend from Theuderic of Narbonne, I wrote that, given his noble origin, and that he is a partial R-P310 (with 4 SNPs positive, 3 negative and 5 no calls as to his Big Y, but I have to look at this last tree of YFull), found so far only in aDNA in Germany, that a German origin is likable, but that he could be also a Tuscan introgressed in these last thousand years inTuscany, and this would be a great news for me indeed.
P.S. I am seeing that YFull was able to read also the 5 no calls of Big Y. Great!



I have 3 no-calls at the L51 level and 5 no-calls at the L52 level. These 8 YSNPs were not picked up by my Big Y test but it is not important. They must have been found in an FGC test. The L52* tester is negative for L11,L151 and PF6453.

For me and every other P312,U106 and S1200 it is still single line of descent for 17 YSNPs. . It is good to see this 17 YSNP bottleneck broken down by divergent subclades and are now in the correct order. Those divergent branches (id:ERS257000ITA [IT-CA and R-Z2118Z2118/PF7589 * Z2113 * Z2112) at the L51 level and L52* will help you with your theory because they are not found in the Steppe.



From my Yfull YReport.
R-L51 Y410 • E207 PF6535 PF6414 CTS10373 • PF6537 • FGC39 L51 • M412 • S167 • PF6536

>>R-L52 PF6416 PF6538 YSC0001249 • CTS10353 • S1175 CTS7650 • PF6544 • S1164 • FGC44 Y101 • FGC796 • Z8159 PF5856 P311 • S128 • PF6545 L52 • PF6541 • A19949 P310 • S129 • PF6546

>>>>R-L151 YSC0000191 • PF6543 • S1159 L11 • S127 • PF6539 L151 • PF6542

Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:48 am
dartraighe wrote:I have 3 no-calls at the L51 level and 5 no-calls at the L52 level. These 8 YSNPs were not picked up by my Big Y test but it is not important. They must have been found in an FGC test. The L52* tester is negative for L11,L151 and PF6453.

For me and every other P312,U106 and S1200 it is still single line of descent for 17 YSNPs. . It is good to see this 17 YSNP bottleneck broken down by divergent subclades and are now in the correct order. Those divergent branches (id:ERS257000ITA [IT-CA and R-Z2118Z2118/PF7589 * Z2113 * Z2112) at the L51 level and L52* will help you with your theory because they are not found in the Steppe.



From my Yfull YReport.
R-L51 Y410 • E207 PF6535 PF6414 CTS10373 • PF6537 • FGC39 L51 • M412 • S167 • PF6536

>>R-L52 PF6416 PF6538 YSC0001249 • CTS10353 • S1175 CTS7650 • PF6544 • S1164 • FGC44 Y101 • FGC796 • Z8159 PF5856 P311 • S128 • PF6545 L52 • PF6541 • A19949 P310 • S129 • PF6546

>>>>R-L151 YSC0000191 • PF6543 • S1159 L11 • S127 • PF6539 L151 • PF6542


Of course for the haplogroups downstream L52+L151 to test all these 12 SNPs of the bottleneck isn't important, because they may be presupposed, but they would be important for Amerighi, because we could know which are positive and which are negative, and to calculate when his line separated from the other (or others). In fact YFull didn't calculate the origin of the Amerighi line. I have all his private SNPs, and they are so many even though tested from Big Y, and that reinforce my theory that YFull date is underestimated.

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:07 am
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:I have 3 no-calls at the L51 level and 5 no-calls at the L52 level. These 8 YSNPs were not picked up by my Big Y test but it is not important. They must have been found in an FGC test. The L52* tester is negative for L11,L151 and PF6453.

For me and every other P312,U106 and S1200 it is still single line of descent for 17 YSNPs. . It is good to see this 17 YSNP bottleneck broken down by divergent subclades and are now in the correct order. Those divergent branches (id:ERS257000ITA [IT-CA and R-Z2118Z2118/PF7589 * Z2113 * Z2112) at the L51 level and L52* will help you with your theory because they are not found in the Steppe.



From my Yfull YReport.
R-L51 Y410 • E207• PF6535• PF6414 • CTS10373 / PF6537 / FGC39• L51 • M412 • S167 • PF6536

>>R-L52 PF6416 PF6538 YSC0001249 • CTS10353 • S1175 CTS7650 • PF6544 • S1164 • FGC44 Y101 • FGC796 • Z8159 PF5856 P311 • S128 • PF6545 L52 • PF6541 • A19949 P310 • S129 • PF6546

>>>>R-L151 YSC0000191 • PF6543 • S1159 L11 • S127 • PF6539 L151 • PF6542


Of course for the haplogroups downstream L52+L151 to test all these 12 SNPs of the bottleneck isn't important, because they may be presupposed, but they would be important for Amerighi, because we could know which are positive and which are negative, and to calculate when his line separated from the other (or others). In fact YFull didn't calculate the origin of the Amerighi line. I have all his private SNPs, and they are so many even though tested from Big Y, and that reinforce my theory that YFull date is underestimated.



I highlighted the no-calls in my YReport. Due to the fact that they are up stream they are not relevant to my research. We know now that L151 and L11 are the most recent ancestors of P312/U106/S1200. Finding L11 or L151 in ancient dna samples will be important to the origin of most western Europeans.

It would be beneficial for all of us if he were able to test the no-calls at YSEQ. The large amount of private SNPs shows how rare a group he belongs to and you are right, Yfull could not give a TMRCA for his specific Y line.

Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:14 pm
dartraighe wrote:
I highlighted the no-calls in my YReport. Due to the fact that they are up stream they are not relevant to my research. We know now that L151 and L11 are the most recent ancestors of P312/U106/S1200. Finding L11 or L151 in ancient dna samples will be important to the origin of most western Europeans.

It would be beneficial for all of us if he were able to test the no-calls at YSEQ. The large amount of private SNPs shows how rare a group he belongs to and you are right, Yfull could not give a TMRCA for his specific Y line.


The ° links different names of the same SNPs, and we don't understand clearly what was tested to you and what not. About to test with Yseq I wrote many letters to Amerighi and prepared many letters for Yseq, but 4 of these no calls cannot be tested from Yseq and only S1175 is available. I asked Amerighi to test at least that. He said that he ordered that but I haven't known anything from then. Anyway to use Big Y seems cheaper but it is more expensive, because my Full Genome (or Y Elite etc) would have solved all the question at the first shot.

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:55 pm
Gioello
FGC may be the best company for the number of YSNP calls, but FTDNA has a huge database which FGC will not overtake in the near future. We need FTDNA because they have 800,000 YDNA testers in their database. They also have a YSTR matching feature in place and a very good Big Y matching system. YSEQ is good for individual YSNP testing but they only accepted 24 of my 35 Big Y SNPs. You are not going to be able to persuade potential matches to pay for FGC tests. There is enough YDNA info in the Big Y test for most testers to get down to their paper trail. I have 10 quality YSNPs to work from 1,300 years to the present which should certainly take me to my paper trail.


My no-calls.
L51 ,three no-calls.
PF6535
PF6414
CTS10373 • PF6537 • FGC39

L52, five no-calls.
PF6416
PF6538
PF5856
Y101 • FGC796 • Z8159
YSC0001249 • CTS10353 • S1175

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:58 pm
Yfull is not able to get their TMRCA's correct for a lot of branches. They have 4 SNPs in the Z156 branch representing 1,700 years and 33 SNPs representing 3,000 years. It should be 4,700 divided by 37 to get the average years per SNP within my branch and my sample should be used as a guide because it was a quality sample. The testers with the missing SNPs from poor dna sample tests are the problem.

The branch Y19736 TMRCA's should be, formed 4,191, TMRCA 2,032, and A9845, formed 2,032, TMRCA 1,270.

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