The last morons hard to die

General discussions regarding DNA and its uses in genealogy research

Posts: 2277
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:40 am
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
It looks like the Scythians were descended from the Celts!!!!! scy009 was P312 derived!!!! Did you know that Celtic settlements were found in the Ukraine, southern Poland and Russia? I posted several times in the past that the Celts expanded as far as Russia, and that is according to the Celt experts.

scy006* Starosillya Scythian ND XX D4j2 -
scy009* Starosillya Scythian 770 - 415 BCE XY J2b1a6 R1b1a1a2
scy010* Starosillya Scythian 790 - 540 BCE XX N1b1a -
scy011* Nesterivka Scythian 355 - 115 BCE XX A -
scy192* Glinoe Scythian 2863 - 2503 BCE XX H8c -
scy193* Glinoe Scythian ND XY U5a2a1 R1b1a1a2?
scy197* Glinoe Scythian 2885 - 2632 BCE XY U5a1a1 R1b1a1a2
scy300* Glinoe Scythian 397 - 209 BCE XX H5b -
scy301 Glinoe Scythian 392 - 204 BCE XY U5b2a3 R1b1a1a2
scy303* Glinoe Scythian 380 - 203 BCE XX U5a1a2b -
scy304 Glinoe Scythian 361 - 172 BCE XY U4* R1b1a1a2
scy305* Glinoe Scythian 399 - 209 BCE XY U5a2b R1b1a1a2
scy311* Glinoe Scythian 389 - 204 BCE XX T2b -


Dartraighe, I woke up in the night and I have to study all the matter, but I am saying from so long that the expansion of the brother subclade of mine (CTS7556 till CTS9219 etc) happened from West to East and not the other way around. Thus with it there have been also other hgs.



There is no evidence modern or ancient, that P312 was born/originated north of the Black Sea. And the amount of WHG that scy009 had is more proof of where he came from. These Scythians did not come from Iran, that is for sure, because ancient Iranians do not have WHG.

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:54 am
dartraighe wrote:
There is no evidence modern or ancient, that P312 was born/originated north of the Black Sea. And the amount of WHG that scy009 had is more proof of where he came from. These Scythians did not come from Iran, that is for sure, because ancient Iranians do not have WHG.


Today, 06:49 AM
Generalissimo replied to a thread Ancient genomes of Srubnaya, Cimmerians, Scythians and Sarmatians(Science, 2018) in Ancient (aDNA)
Scythian_Ukraine:scy009 clusters with Poles.

Ahahahahahahah, only 1 R-P312 with only other 2 R1b of all the previous ones (both R-Z2103) would be the proof that R-L51 and subclades did come from eastern Europe?

Ahahahahahah, it is at least 2000 years after that this subclade was born and very likely, given its low coverage, we won’t ever know its terminal SNP…

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:12 am
Mikko Ojanen Gioiello Tognoni what forum is this? You have mentioned it before in some thread.
Gioiello Tognoni Mikko Ojanen, I have been banned from all the fora, the unique open to me and where only me and my friend dartraighe are writing is http://www.eng.molgen.org linked to the molgen forum in Russian and linked and owned from YFull. If I probably are winning for my theory of an Italian Refugium of hg R1b1 (and much other) is thankful to the great tools that YFull put at disposal of all us against FTDNA and all its lakeys, and numerous geneticists from Harvard, Stanford and also Caesarea ...

Posts: 2277
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:28 pm
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:
There is no evidence modern or ancient, that P312 was born/originated north of the Black Sea. And the amount of WHG that scy009 had is more proof of where he came from. These Scythians did not come from Iran, that is for sure, because ancient Iranians do not have WHG.


Today, 06:49 AM
Generalissimo replied to a thread Ancient genomes of Srubnaya, Cimmerians, Scythians and Sarmatians(Science, 2018) in Ancient (aDNA)
Scythian_Ukraine:scy009 clusters with Poles.

Ahahahahahahah, only 1 R-P312 with only other 2 R1b of all the previous ones (both R-Z2103) would be the proof that R-L51 and subclades did come from eastern Europe?

Ahahahahahah, it is at least 2000 years after that this subclade was born and very likely, given its low coverage, we won’t ever know its terminal SNP…


Gioiello
One poster has scy009 as P312>U152>L2. scy009's gedmatch genesis ID is AG3897943. The calculators are showing affiliation to different populations, Ukraine, Poland, Slovenia and Hungary. I have no matching segments to this sample even at 150 SNPs and 1.5 cMs. It looks like his Y ancestor arrived from western Europe. L2 is not a Ukrainian nor Polish subhaplogroup.
Last edited by dartraighe on Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:35 pm
dartraighe wrote:
Gioiello
One poster has scy009 as P312>U152>L2. His gedmatch genesis ID is AG3897943. The calculators are showing affiliation to different populations, Ukraine, Poland, Slovenia and Hungary. I have no matching segments to this sample even at 150 SNPs and 1.5 cMs. It looks like his Y ancestor arrived from western Europe. L2 is not a Ukrainian nor Polish subhaplogroup.


I answered a friend of mine on a FB page in Italian:
Gioiello Tognoni I am seeing that smal says that sc009 is R-L2:
Today, 02:26 PM
smal replied to a thread Ancient genomes of Srubnaya, Cimmerians, Scythians and Sarmatians(Science, 2018) in Ancient (aDNA)
scy009 is R1b-P312>U152>L2 (P312+, U152?, L2+)
see more
78 replies | 4092 view(s) If true, what does it demonstrate an L2 2500 years ago about the origin of R-L51 and subclades? Nothing, if not it came from West.
Mattia Miretti Proprio l'altro giorno leggevo di come nel IV secolo grandi quantità di Sarmati vennero insediate in Italia, tanto che furono creati 14 prefetti dei Sarmati di cui ben 11 nel nord Italia (6 nel solo Piemonte). Credi che possano avere a che fare con gli L2 che abbiamo oggi nella penisola?
Gioiello Tognoni Mattia Miretti, bisognerebbe vedere al livello di SNPs, di SNP terminale. Mi sembra strano che smal sia riuscito a vedere così a fondo in esemplari dati come testati a una bassa copertura. Vediamo. Smal è una persona seria, ma i primi risultati li ha dati Semargl, cioè Vladimir Tagankin della YFull, e lui era fermo su R-P312. Purtroppo non ho elementi per dire la mia, non avendo computer, programmi etc. Aspetto anch'io, come te.
Gioiello Tognoni Comunque questi erano Sciti, non so se coincidono con i Sarmati.
Last edited by Gioiello on Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 2277
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:42 pm
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:
Gioiello
One poster has scy009 as P312>U152>L2. scy009's gedmatch genesis ID is AG3897943. The calculators are showing affiliation to different populations, Ukraine, Poland, Slovenia and Hungary. I have no matching segments to this sample even at 150 SNPs and 1.5 cMs. It looks like his Y ancestor arrived from western Europe. L2 is not a Ukrainian nor Polish subhaplogroup.


I answered a friend of mine on a FB page in Italian:
Gioiello Tognoni I am seeing that smal says that sc009 is R-L2:
Today, 02:26 PM
smal replied to a thread Ancient genomes of Srubnaya, Cimmerians, Scythians and Sarmatians(Science, 2018) in Ancient (aDNA)
scy009 is R1b-P312>U152>L2 (P312+, U152?, L2+)
see more
78 replies | 4092 view(s) If true, what does it demonstrate an L2 2500 years ago about the origin of R-L51 and subclades? Nothing, if not it came from West.
Mattia Miretti Proprio l'altro giorno leggevo di come nel IV secolo grandi quantità di Sarmati vennero insediate in Italia, tanto che furono creati 14 prefetti dei Sarmati di cui ben 11 nel nord Italia (6 nel solo Piemonte). Credi che possano avere a che fare con gli L2 che abbiamo oggi nella penisola?
Gioiello Tognoni Mattia Miretti, bisognerebbe vedere al livello di SNPs, di SNP terminale. Mi sembra strano che smal sia riuscito a vedere così a fondo in esemplari dati come testati a una bassa copertura. Vediamo. Smal è una persona seria, ma i primi risultati li ha dati Semargl, cioè Vladimir Tagankin della YFull, e lui era fermo su R-P312. Purtroppo non ho elementi per dire la mia, non avendo computer, programmi etc. Aspetto anch'io, come te.
Gioiello Tognoni Comunque questo erano Sciti, non so se coincidono con i Sarmati.



The Scythians were definitely a mixed bunch. We have not learned a lot with these ancient dna samples. We need a lot of samples from 5,000-4,000 years ago in the Ukraine to put an end to all the disputes over the origin of P312 and U106.

Posts: 2277
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:21 pm
Gioiello
Here is scy009 Eurogenes_ANE K7 Admixture Proportions
Kit Number: AG3897943 Population
ANE 13.96 Pct
ASE -
WHG-UHG 65.63 Pct
East_Eurasian -
West_African 3.27 Pct
East_African 1.70 Pct
ENF 15.44 Pct


Here are my results, from my Living Dna data upload and I have more ANE. My Family Finder autosomal results are similar.
Population
ANE 16.17 Pct
ASE 2.63 Pct
WHG-UHG 65.85 Pct
East_Eurasian 0.37 Pct
West_African -
East_African 0.72 Pct
ENF 14.25 Pct

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:56 pm
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
Here is scy009 Eurogenes_ANE K7 Admixture Proportions
Kit Number: AG3897943 Population
ANE 13.96 Pct
ASE -
WHG-UHG 65.63 Pct
East_Eurasian -
West_African 3.27 Pct
East_African 1.70 Pct
ENF 15.44 Pct


Here are my results, from my Living Dna data upload and I have more ANE. My Family Finder autosomal results are similar.
Population
ANE 16.17 Pct
ASE 2.63 Pct
WHG-UHG 65.85 Pct
East_Eurasian 0.37 Pct
West_African -
East_African 0.72 Pct
ENF 14.25 Pct


You know that I have a little consideration of the autosome, but these results are impressive. Practically you are pretty the same. Take into account that the data of the paper were based upon only transvertions and without deamination, thus if also your data are compared only at these conditions, perhaps these data are reliable.

Posts: 2277
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:11 am
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
Here is scy009 Eurogenes_ANE K7 Admixture Proportions
Kit Number: AG3897943 Population
ANE 13.96 Pct
ASE -
WHG-UHG 65.63 Pct
East_Eurasian -
West_African 3.27 Pct
East_African 1.70 Pct
ENF 15.44 Pct


Here are my results, from my Living Dna data upload and I have more ANE. My Family Finder autosomal results are similar.
Population
ANE 16.17 Pct
ASE 2.63 Pct
WHG-UHG 65.85 Pct
East_Eurasian 0.37 Pct
West_African -
East_African 0.72 Pct
ENF 14.25 Pct


You know that I have a little consideration of the autosome, but these results are impressive. Practically you are pretty the same. Take into account that the data of the paper were based upon only transvertions and without deamination, thus if also your data are compared only at these conditions, perhaps these data are reliable.


Kit Number: M236020 Villabruna
Population
ANE 7.16
ASE 0.52
WHG-UHG 89.88
East_Eurasian 0.97
West_African 0.36
East_African 1.12
ENF -

Villabruna's clan is the ancestor of all western/central Europeans. It is so simple to see. Davidski should put scy009 into his Hallstatt PCA. Some posters should be aware that scy009 was not L2. He is missing 2,000 years of YSNPs. L2 was his ancestor.
eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/09/the-hallstatt-effect.html


Gioiello
You can see that the "Italian North" in the Hallstatt-effect PCA is genetic isolate like the ancient Ulster cluster that was found in the recent Irish dna study. It is remarkable that a dna group can remain isolated within a mixed population group which has seen multiple migrations. People are marrying into their own tribe and they do not realize it.

Posts: 2277
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:13 am
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
Here is scy009 Eurogenes_ANE K7 Admixture Proportions
Kit Number: AG3897943 Population
ANE 13.96 Pct
ASE -
WHG-UHG 65.63 Pct
East_Eurasian -
West_African 3.27 Pct
East_African 1.70 Pct
ENF 15.44 Pct


Here are my results, from my Living Dna data upload and I have more ANE. My Family Finder autosomal results are similar.
Population
ANE 16.17 Pct
ASE 2.63 Pct
WHG-UHG 65.85 Pct
East_Eurasian 0.37 Pct
West_African -
East_African 0.72 Pct
ENF 14.25 Pct


You know that I have a little consideration of the autosome, but these results are impressive. Practically you are pretty the same. Take into account that the data of the paper were based upon only transvertions and without deamination, thus if also your data are compared only at these conditions, perhaps these data are reliable.


My ANE K7 and scy009 are similar because we came from the same ancient dna gene pool.


Here is the ANE K7 for Goyet , Belgium 30,000 ybp, before the Ice Age.
Kit Number: M384220
Population
ANE 12.43
ASE 10.70
WHG-UHG 52.61
East_Eurasian 9.26
West_African 0.99
East_African 6.72
ENF 7.29 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And El Miron 19,000 ybp
Kit Number: M225927
Population
ANE 7.11
ASE 5.83
WHG-UHG 77.09
East_Eurasian 5.28
West_African 1.48
East_African 3.21
ENF -

Here is the MDLP K16 Modern results for the Irish Neolithic ancient dna sample.
Kit M427312

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 55.25
2 NorthEastEuropean 14.62
3 Caucasian 11.77
4 Steppe 11.19
5 NorthAfrican 3.58
6 Subsaharian 3.2
7 NearEast 0.18
8 Ancestor 0.15
9 Australian 0.05
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