Z156*


Posts: 2444
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 8:50 pm
dartraighe wrote:If he is not positive for the 12 YSNPs at the L151 level then why did Yfull put him in the tree as L151* under L151? His YDNA test must have been of very poor quality. You say that you have his BAM file results and that he is negative for three YSNPs. Are you able to make them public? The no-calls are a problem for him due to the fact that his dna sample was really bad I think.


You know that FTDNA is releasing only the VCF file now, what is on YFull as you can see from the ID in the YFull tree, for that his data aren't definitive, but I have also the FTDNA results, and he has 22 novel known SNPs and 28 novel unknown SNPs. My word is the word of Gioiello Tognoni and no one may doubt about that. Not only my Y comes from the Indo-European warlords, but my grandfather did his purchases of a bull or of a cow only by shaking his hands.

Posts: 2280
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:35 pm
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:If he is not positive for the 12 YSNPs at the L151 level then why did Yfull put him in the tree as L151* under L151? His YDNA test must have been of very poor quality. You say that you have his BAM file results and that he is negative for three YSNPs. Are you able to make them public? The no-calls are a problem for him due to the fact that his dna sample was really bad I think.


You know that FTDNA is releasing only the VCF file now, what is on YFull as you can see from the ID in the YFull tree, for that his data aren't definitive, but I have also the FTDNA results, and he has 22 novel known SNPs and 28 novel unknown SNPs. My word is the word of Gioiello Tognoni and no one may doubt about that. Not only my Y comes from the Indo-European warlords, but my grandfather did his purchases of a bull or of a cow only by shaking his hands.


Okay, so Yfull does not have his BAM file. He should still ask one of his cousins to test to verify all of his YSNPs.

I do not doubt you but Yfull needs to put him in the correct place in the Y tree. I know how the Y tree is established.

Who were the Indo European warlords? We are still waiting for the P312 and U106 ancient dna samples from the Steppe. The scientists have gone to sleep.

Some posters write autosomal this, autosomal that with their PCA's but we do not see the Y. They are steeped in BS up to their knees.

Posts: 2280
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 6:11 am
Gioiello
I checked mine and my son's Y reports at Yfull and I have 5 no calls and my son has 4 no calls at the L151 level but I know that we are positive for those YSNPs. The Big Y test does not always pick up these YSNPs. Some of the the L151 YSNPs at Yfull must have come from a FGC Y elite test.

Under P312 there are a lot of single entries and they will remain that way until they get someone to verify their YSNPs. Their best bet is a cousin. They could wait for years for a match to come along and other NGS testers may not be willing to send their BAM files to Yfull.

L151 no calls
PF6416
PF6538
PF5856
FGC796
S1175

Posts: 2444
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:04 am
YF13201 is in the R-M343 (xP312,xU106) group at YFull and everyone who is in the group may check his SNPs at the R-L11 level. Here you have the 3 negative, the 5 no calls and another positive (Y: 17589518 T) to add to the other 3 positive known so far also from FTDNA: P310, P311, L52.

Sample ID HG 16492547 17844018 16751825 6604911 19418178 5007935 17697807 17589518 6447588

REFSEQ T C A G C A C T A

YF13201 R-L151* C T G E E E E T E

About my origin from IE warlords, it is what many said to me, i.e. why I, being R-L23, thus descendant from the supposed IE warlords from Samara, am for an "Italian Refugium". I said that I'd be much honoured to descend from Samara, but all my theories are in favour of an Italian origin of hg. R1b1 already many years before that Villabruna and lastly Les Iboussiéres were discovered.
I am waiting to understand the origin of my R-L23-Z2110, massively present in Italy, even though it is found from Scandinavia to some Arab country to Caucasus. Unfortunately many people except me are bad tested and the Arab didn't pay the fee at YFull. If it will be demonstrated that my Y ancestor came from Alans or other people in Middle Ages I'll accept this truth of course, but everything has to be demonstrated with aDNA.

Posts: 2280
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 12:06 pm
Gioiello wrote:YF13201 is in the R-M343 (xP312,xU106) group at YFull and everyone who is in the group may check his SNPs at the R-L11 level. Here you have the 3 negative, the 5 no calls and another positive (Y: 17589518 T) to add to the other 3 positive known so far also from FTDNA: P310, P311, L52.

Sample ID HG 16492547 17844018 16751825 6604911 19418178 5007935 17697807 17589518 6447588

REFSEQ T C A G C A C T A

YF13201 R-L151* C T G E E E E T E

About my origin from IE warlords, it is what many said to me, i.e. why I, being R-L23, thus descendant from the supposed IE warlords from Samara, am for an "Italian Refugium". I said that I'd be much honoured to descend from Samara, but all my theories are in favour of an Italian origin of hg. R1b1 already many years before that Villabruna and lastly Les Iboussiéres were discovered.
I am waiting to understand the origin of my R-L23-Z2110, massively present in Italy, even though it is found from Scandinavia to some Arab country to Caucasus. Unfortunately many people except me are bad tested and the Arab didn't pay the fee at YFull. If it will be demonstrated that my Y ancestor came from Alans or other people in Middle Ages I'll accept this truth of course, but everything has to be demonstrated with aDNA.



He has no calls in the same SNPs as I do.
PF6416 6447588 C>A
PF6538 17697807 T>C
PF5856 6604911 A>G
FGC796 5007935 C>A
S1175 19418178 T>C
PF6543 16751825 G>A
L151 16492547 C>T
L11 17844018 T>C
PF6544 17589518 T>C

Posts: 2444
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 3:55 pm
dartraighe wrote:
He has no calls in the same SNPs as I do.
PF6416 6447588 C>A
PF6538 17697807 T>C
PF5856 6604911 A>G
FGC796 5007935 C>A
S1175 19418178 T>C
PF6543 16751825 G>A
L151 16492547 C>T
L11 17844018 T>C
PF6544 17589518 T>C


Pretty all the Big Y-s have, but my Full Genome tested perfectly all the 12 SNPs... And for knowing them he is very likely spending about 100 dollars at Yseq.

Posts: 2280
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:19 pm
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:
He has no calls in the same SNPs as I do.
PF6416 6447588 C>A
PF6538 17697807 T>C
PF5856 6604911 A>G
FGC796 5007935 C>A
S1175 19418178 T>C
PF6543 16751825 G>A
L151 16492547 C>T
L11 17844018 T>C
PF6544 17589518 T>C


Pretty all the Big Y-s have, but my Full Genome tested perfectly all the 12 SNPs... And for knowing them he is very likely spending about 100 dollars at Yseq.


I suspected that the 12 YSNPs at L151 level came from FGC and also the 5 SNPs at the L51 level. I am not concerned about all the no calls above my terminal dna branch.

I think that this specific Italian tester belongs to a rare subgroup that is a brother to P312 and U106. Yfull shows them on the same line.

The L23 found in the Samara HG was L23* and we are not descended from him.

The ancient Z2103 found in Iran was a huge spanner in the works but it was no surprise to me.

And I have asked the scientists to come up with the evidence of the earliest P312 and U106 in the Steppe and show that they are the ancestors of all western Europeans. I am still waiting.

Posts: 2280
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:07 pm
One of the anti -Iberian posters states "The Indo-Europeans, on the other hand, were a patriarchal society."


Well I have news for him , 50% of the Bell Beakers were females. Perhaps he is not able to read the scientific papers on the BBC.

Posts: 2280
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:38 am
A great post from the U106 forum.


https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/u106/about

"On the subsequent pages of the project linked above, are, for example, the Y-DNA Results page that groups people into their small subclades with their clademates, which is the ONLY PLACE ANYWHERE where U106 people can see who their clademates are, what their names are, and where they are from, NO MATTER WHAT TEST THEY TOOK AT WHAT LAB, and, BEYOND THAT, the people in the groups ABOVE THAT!

Why have people paid all of this money for these tests if they’re not actually interested in the answers?

So, suppose that you are an American, and you have no idea where your ancestors are from, but you took a Big Y-500 test, and I’m showing you in a subclade where most of the others are from Scotland. What does that tell you? Sorry folks, I don’t mean to sound insulting, but on the other hand, WHY OTHERWISE DID YOU SPEND ALL THAT MONEY?!?

OK, so look further up at the clade above your clade on the line of descent (not necessarily the one immediately above!) So for example, if your clade is FGC921>FGC925, you want to look back (above) at the FGC921 folks. See what I mean? Now, look back at the folks in the group above that. WHERE are they from? Suppose it’s Norway. What does that tell you?!? OK, so, you descend from a group that Iain has dated at 300 AD where the folks are mostly from Norway.

The Viking migration to Scotland was in the 9th century, more or less.

So, then, in your subclade, they are from Scotland, and Iain has the clade dated to 1150 AD. What does that tell you?!?

What we are about, right here, on our late friend Mike’s forum, is the DISCUSSION of issues exactly like this:

To your numbered questions below:

1) The answer here has everything to do with your preceding sentence. This guy’s own FATHER could have had the usual result. It’s TOO fast-mutating to be reliable. So, forget it!

2) No. More or less forget SAPP (not entirely). Except that, as said before, STRs are “suggestive”. Even at the 111 level, I match people in a DIFFERENT SNP-clade! Get it?, sorry, STRs are only “suggestive”, unless they are really slow.

STRs, especially when grouped together into Genetic Distance (GD) calculations, add up to what amounts to a “ballpark estimate”. We don’t descend from our ancestors via arithmetic! Of all the silly concepts. Seriously, how ludicrous. The entire emphasis on GD all of these years has been deceptively overdone. Your STR matches are ballpark suggestive GUESSES of who your real close matches actually are. In order to determine the REAL answer, they need to be SNP tested. Joe, sorry buddy, SNP TESTED! You’re paying WAY too much attention to a nearly useless fast-mutating STR. Throw it away, and move on"!

Posts: 2280
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:11 pm
dartraighe wrote:A great post from the U106 forum.


https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/u106/about

"On the subsequent pages of the project linked above, are, for example, the Y-DNA Results page that groups people into their small subclades with their clademates, which is the ONLY PLACE ANYWHERE where U106 people can see who their clademates are, what their names are, and where they are from, NO MATTER WHAT TEST THEY TOOK AT WHAT LAB, and, BEYOND THAT, the people in the groups ABOVE THAT!

Why have people paid all of this money for these tests if they’re not actually interested in the answers?

So, suppose that you are an American, and you have no idea where your ancestors are from, but you took a Big Y-500 test, and I’m showing you in a subclade where most of the others are from Scotland. What does that tell you? Sorry folks, I don’t mean to sound insulting, but on the other hand, WHY OTHERWISE DID YOU SPEND ALL THAT MONEY?!?

OK, so look further up at the clade above your clade on the line of descent (not necessarily the one immediately above!) So for example, if your clade is FGC921>FGC925, you want to look back (above) at the FGC921 folks. See what I mean? Now, look back at the folks in the group above that. WHERE are they from? Suppose it’s Norway. What does that tell you?!? OK, so, you descend from a group that Iain has dated at 300 AD where the folks are mostly from Norway.

The Viking migration to Scotland was in the 9th century, more or less.

So, then, in your subclade, they are from Scotland, and Iain has the clade dated to 1150 AD. What does that tell you?!?

What we are about, right here, on our late friend Mike’s forum, is the DISCUSSION of issues exactly like this:

To your numbered questions below:

1) The answer here has everything to do with your preceding sentence. This guy’s own FATHER could have had the usual result. It’s TOO fast-mutating to be reliable. So, forget it!

2) No. More or less forget SAPP (not entirely). Except that, as said before, STRs are “suggestive”. Even at the 111 level, I match people in a DIFFERENT SNP-clade! Get it?, sorry, STRs are only “suggestive”, unless they are really slow.

STRs, especially when grouped together into Genetic Distance (GD) calculations, add up to what amounts to a “ballpark estimate”. We don’t descend from our ancestors via arithmetic! Of all the silly concepts. Seriously, how ludicrous. The entire emphasis on GD all of these years has been deceptively overdone. Your STR matches are ballpark suggestive GUESSES of who your real close matches actually are. In order to determine the REAL answer, they need to be SNP tested. Joe, sorry buddy, SNP TESTED! You’re paying WAY too much attention to a nearly useless fast-mutating STR. Throw it away, and move on"!



It is the opinion of some U106 experts that the U106 YSTR modal is close to the ancestral haplotype of Mr U106 and DYS390=24 instead of 23 and DYS492=12 instead of 13.
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